Posts Tagged trade

Playing catch up

A lot has happened in The Pirates world and the baseball world in general since I last posted.  I just wanna give my thoughts on some of what went down.

Pirates acquire Akinori Iwamura for Jesse Chavez

This deal actually happened when I was on vacation in Hawaii, which is why I didn’t post anything then.  So far, among Pirates blogs I’ve read, there seems to be a mixed analysis focusing on the fact that Chavez still has 5 years of club control left compared to Aki’s 1.  Obviously, you hate to see a young talented reliever like Chavez go, but as with any trade, you have to give something to get something, and Iwamura is worth that price to me.  Relief pitching is the most inconsistent and unpredictable position in baseball.  I liked Chavez, and I thought he had a lot of potential to become a high leverage reliever, but I would much rather have a known commodity manning second base.  I believe that one of the reasons our team went into a tailspin after the Wilson and Sanchez trades last season is that the defense up the middle that made our starting pitching look so good early in the season was no longer there.  A middle infield of Iwamura and Cedeno, while not Jack and Freddy, should provide 90% of the defense we saw early last year.  As with any trade, you can’t pick out the true winner and loser until a year or more down the line, but I’m gonna say the Pirates are a better team now than they were before the trade and I’ll like it even more if the end up extending Aki for a few more years past this one.

Perry Hill will not be back as our infield instructor

This one is a huge blow.  Hill was a mastermind of infield defense, and you don’t have to look very far to find quotes from players praising his work.  There was some controversy when he left over why he wasn’t coming back.  Regardless of the reason, Hill decided he didn’t want to work for the Pirates so he’s is gone and I’m sad to see him go.  The one point I’d make counter to that is that he’s only a coach.  Obviously you want to have the best coaches money can buy, especially with a young team like the Pirates have.  But as with any other sport, the talent on the field is what wins games, not the coaches on the bench.  Hill will be replaced by former Pirate Carlos Garcia.

Yankees win World Series

I address this not because I care about the Yankees or the Phillies.  I have a great amount of dislike for both teams and I yearn for the days when Pirates v. Phillies can be a rivalry again.  However, since it ended there has been a lot of discussion in the national media about The payroll advantage the Yankees have, and whether they “bought a championship.”  That is what I want to address.  To say the Yankees bought a championship is unfair to the Yankees.  They are playing within the rules and taking advantage of every opportunity they have, good for them.  Also, saying that they bought a title ignores the fact that almost every team in the Playoffs this year has an astronomical payroll (2009 payroll).  If you count the Tigers and their one game playoff with the Twins, 7 of the top 9 made the Playoffs this year.

With that, here is how I like to think of the advantage the top payroll teams have.  Every extra dollar is a dollar that can be used to make up for mistakes in personnel and player development.  If you the Kansas City Royals, the Pittsburgh Pirates, or any other team who can’t afford to sign the top free agents, you have to be almost perfect.  All of your top draft picks have to turn out to be great players.  When you trade your top players who are free agency eligible, the return has to turn out to be solid major league talent.  As you move up the ladder to teams with a few more dollars, there’s a little more room for error.  And when you get to the top, teams like the Yankees have an almost unlimited margin for error.  Their draft picks are almost irrelevant.  They can afford to take chances on reclamation projects like Billy Wagner.  Any mistake made in developing personnel can be covered up by a good free agent signing.  And those very free agent signings are very low risk because its proven talent.  Obviously its  huge advantage, a broken system that needs to be fixed.

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Looking Back at The “Fire Sale”

In the days since the trade deadline there has been loads of analysis, by both local and national media, on the flurry of trades made by the Pirates this year.  I disagree with the “fire sale” label most are applying to the moves, and Jerry Crasnick at espn.com has an excellent article, which among many other things, refutes this fire sale label, but that’s not really the point of this post.  The point I want to make here is that most of the national media don’t seem to understand why the Pirates had to do what they’ve done.

There seem to be 2 prevailing arguments against what Neal Huntington has done since taking the reins as the Pirates GM.  First, people try to make the argument that the players traded were talented enough to be the core of a winning team.  Jay Mariotti writes on fanhouse:

[Neal Huntington's] plan is to rebuild a bad farm system, but in the process, he has traded off a group of respectable, and, in some cases, quality major-leaguers. Bay, McLouth and Morgan would comprise one of the best outfields in the game if still together. Wilson and Sanchez were huge fan favorites and best friends who worked well as a double-play combination. Snell was a 14-game winner at one point.

The problem with this argument is that it is obviously false.  Almost every single players traded was on the Pirates roster in 2007.  That team finished with a record of 68-94.  Same story in 2008, a team that had a record of 48-56 prior to the first major trade, the Xavier Nady trade.  Quite obviosly, using nothing but the team record, the players the Pirates had weren’t enough to win in ‘07 and ‘08, and there was little reason to believe they would be enough to win in’09 or beyond.

While a few of the players traded away were above average major league players, most notably Bay and Sanchez, there wasn’t enough around them to be a winning team.  Furthermore, the minor league system was left so barren by previous administrations, that there was nothing coming up behind them to augment the talent at the major league level.

While were on the subject of the minor league system, lets get to the second argument commonly made against these trades, that the Pirates aren’t getting high end prospects back in these trades.  The problem with this line of reasoning, is that it assumes major league general managers are willing to part with their high end prospects easily.  In this day and age of the over valued prospect, you can only acquire high end prospects by giving up high end players.  As I mentioned before, the only high end players traded away were Sanchez and Bay (some would argue this McLouth here, but that’s a discussion for another day).  In the Sanchez deal, a high end prospect was returned in the form of pitcher Tim Alderson.  Likewise, the Bay deal, while more of a depth move, returned Bryan Morris.  While Morris has struggled with injuries since coming to the Pirates, he was once considered to be a high upside pitching prospect.  When you consider what was given up, I think the prospect return the Bucs received was more than fair.  In addition, it addressed the immediate problem at hand, which was filling the void left in the system by Dave Littlefield and Kevin McClatchy.

The final argument I hear is that until the Pirates can produce their own players, they will never be able to win.  Peter Pascarelli sums this one up well on ESPN’s baseball today podcast on July 31st.

They’ve got to get some stability somewhere.  But they still have to start producing their own players.  To me, that’s the bottom line.   They can’t keep trading for prospects, and hope that a few of them pan out….It’s a vicious cycle.  An unsuccessful small market team continues recycling players.  Until you have some success and until your own system produces it’s own players, your going to see them trade away guys every other year.

I actually agree with this wholeheartedly.  If the Pirates are ever going to win consistently in the long term, they have to be able to draft well, sign players in the international market, and generally do a good job of developing young talent.  The problem here, is that it’s not really a valid argument against making these trades.  To illustrate this, I’m going to come up with a ludicrous example.

Lets say you were a corn farmer who survives by trading your corn for sugar, meat, whatever it is you need to survive, and then selling the excess for money.  Then lets imagine you had a bad crop one year.  It seems quite obvious to me that you would use the money left over from selling last years crop in order to buy the sugar and meat you need.  But it also seems quite obvious to me that if you continue to have bad crops year in and out for a sustained period of time, you won’t ever get rich.

Its a bit of a flawed analogy obviously, but I think its effective despite those flaws.  For the past 16 years, the Pirates have had a lot of bad crops.  If they want to win long term, they need to start having good crops.  But that alone doesn’t mean they should starve this year.

The bottom line is that until some of these prospects pan out (or conversely, don’t pan out), it will be hard to say definitively which of these trades are wins for the bucs and which ones aren’t.  That isn’t going to happen until at least the middle of next year or beyond.  But you really can’t make a logical argument against the strategy that Neal Huntington has taken in trying to rebuild the organization and the arguments that are being made are very easily refuted.

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Another Day, Another Trade

As I’m sure you’ve heard by now, the Pirates made another trade today sending pitchers John Grabow and Tom Gorzelanny to the Cube for RHP Kevin Hart, Infielder Josh Harrison and RHP Jose Ascanio.  I don’t really have time to write up anything resembling a full workup, so I’m going to post here an edited version of what I posted to twitter.  As I see it, there are three questions that will define whether his deal is a win for the Pirates or not.

  1. Can Harrison be anything more than a utility infielder at the big league level?
  2. Long term who is better, Gorzo or Hart?
  3. Does Grabow net the Cubs compensation picks as a Type A free agent this off-season?

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Yesterday’s Leftovers

Some stray thoughts left from yesterday, that I wanted to turn into bits and bytes…

  • I’ve become very frustrated since these trade went down, but not in the way you might think.  I’m frustrated with the attitude of the casual Pirates fan.  The way I see it, the strategy that Neal Huntington is taking of blowing it all up is something that has needed to happen for years.  I touched on this yesterday, but Dave Littlefield never quite got there.  He would trade a few high priced veterans for prospects, and then trade for Matt Morris or sign Jeromy Burnitz.  What NH is doing is the right strategy, and its refreshing to see it happen.  I’m finally rooting for a baseball team that is heading in the right direction.  But it’s frustrating to me that most fans poo-poo every move, seeing it as more of the same.  Seeing it as cheap ownership selling off valuable assets for .25 cents on the dollar.  Its going to take time for this strategy to bear out in the form of wins at the major league level, but it is almost undoubtedly the right strategy to take.   I want more casual fans who aren’t following our minor league system to realize that.
  • I was expressing this frustration to my girlfriend, and she posed the question of how many of these guys we acquired are likely to see PNC Park next season.  By my count, we’ve acquired 21 players in 7 trades dating back to the Nady/Marte trade last year.  Roughly 10 of those are almost certain to be in Pittsburgh at some point next year, with 3 more who could make it to the show before next season ends, depending on how quickly they develop.
  • Now that Wilson and Sanchez are gone, the question I’m left with is who is next to go?  There are rumors today of a possible John Grabow trade, but his potential type A free agent status clouds that a bit.  Anyway, my suspicion is that he does get traded, but that he is the last to go between now and the end of the season.  In the off-season though, I’d watch Ryan Doumit, Zach Duke, and Paul Maholm as players who could potentially be moved.  Doumit is injury prone, and when you consider that Tony Sanchez is the catcher of the future and JJ’s strong play this year, I would not be surprised if Doumit is moved.  Duke and Maholm are a bit more complicated, but the bottom line is that we have a glut of mid to back of the rotation starters, and no advanced middle infield prospects.  Either Duke or Maholm, but probably not both, could potentially be moved to bring back a middle infielder.
  • Another thing I failed to put in yesterday’s post is the money saved in those trades.  As a very rough estimate, the Pirates current payroll commitments for next year total about $35 Million.  Using this years payroll as a baseline, that leaves $15 Million that could be spent on free agent signings for next season.  What they do with it is anybody’s guess, but the biggest glaring holes as we head into next season are middle infield and starting pitching.  I would be shocked to see them sign a big name, big money free agent to a long term contract, but given the economy and that many teams may be trying to shed payroll, don’t be shocked it some or all of that money is committed to one of those areas in a two or three year deal.
  • Pat Lackey has an excellent post over at WHYGAVS about where this leaves the team for the rest of this season.  I suggest you read it.  I agree with almost everything he says in that post.

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Look Mom, We’re Rebuilding!

When you go back to last year when the Pirates traded Xavier Nady, the question has been raised over and over again if the team is in a rebuilding mode.  Neal Huntington and the rest of the Pirates front office has insisted that they aren’t rebuilding, choosing to call it a myriad of words, but never using the word rebuild.  With the two trades made today, dealing Freddy Sanchez and Jack Wilson, its now a rebuilding, whether NH will use the word or not.  They’ve blown it up, acquiring a plethora of young talent along the way, and now they are gonna build it back up from scratch.

Before we get to the specific return from these two trades, I just wanted to point that out, because blowing it all away and building it back up from scratch is what Dave Littlefield would never do.  It always needed to be done, but for some reason he was always half in and half out, never going all the way.  Now that its done, we get to watch a lot of young upside talent play and see who pans out.  Count me in as excited.

Now that that’s out of the way, lets get to the two trades made today.  First, before the 1-0 extra inning loss in San Francisco, the Pirates sent Jack Wilson and Ian Snell and over $3 Million in cash to the Seattle Mariners for 5 players.  No that’s not a typo.  The Pirates got 5 players in a exchange for 2 months of a light hitting, great fielding 31 year old SS and a SP who earlier this year requested a demotion to AAA.  If your anything like me, your reaction to this is something along the lines of “Really? They probably aren’t any good then.”   Well, it turns out some of them are pretty good.  There isn’t really an elite level prospect here, but they are solid.

The headliner here is Jeff Clement.  He’s a C/1B who was the Mariners number one pick in the 2005 draft.  He was drafted as a catcher, but from what I’ve read he is now seen as mostly a 1B and no longer as a catcher.  He’s a bit enigmatic, in that he was given an audition last year with the Mariners big club and failed, but his numbers at AAA are excellent.  All in all, it seems that he could be an everyday first baseman who will slug 20+ home runs a year.

In addition to Clement, the Mariners sent SS/2B Ronny Cedeno and single A pitchers Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin and Nathan Adcock.  Cedeno is going to be the starting shortstop for the rest of this season, but unless he can show some offensive prowess that he hasn’t showed yet (his career average is .238), he is not a long term answer.  Of the pitchers, Lorin and Adcock both project to be back end starters at the major league level and Pribanic is seen as a fringe prospect.  I’m always cautious with any prospect who is below AA, just due to the level and what can happen between then and reaching the show, but adding this type of pitching depth to the low minors is nice.

I’m just gonna say it, this trade is a steal.  An absolute steal.  What the Mariners were thinking in giving up this much for Wilson and Snell is beyond me.  Don’t take my word for it though, there are people who know way more about baseball than I do who like this deal for the Pirates.  Just one example,  Dave Cameron of fangraphs.com says that “Pittsburgh is the easy winner of this deal.”

After the game, a second deal was made sending all-star 2B Freddy Sanchez to the Giants in exchange for AA pitcher Tim Alderson.  Alderson was rated in January by Baseball America as the giants #4 prospect in a loaded system.  Alderson was the giants #1 pick in 2007 and is considered to be an A+ pitching prospect.  While he doesn’t strike out a ton of guys (202 K’s in 249 career minor lague innings) he also doesn’t walk anyone (51 in the same 249 IP).  He’s also only 20 years old.  He may not be a top of the rotation starter, but might immediately be the Pirates best pitching prospect.

While Sanchez and Wilson will surely be missed, when looking at these deals in total, it seems to me the Pirates organization got drastically better today.  At 31, neither Sanchez nor Wilson was going to be around 2 or 3 years from now when the Pirates are a winning team.  On the other hand, they acquired several players today who could very easily be in Pittsburgh as part of a winning team in the near future.

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